egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> i have a bug report.I am on the surface of an airless minor moon with a radius of about 1 km. A Stamp-O-Tron surface attachment point connected to a docking port is connected to the surface of the planet (similar to a launch clamp; i believe these are from Breaking Ground). However, similar behavior seemed to occur in the predecessor to this mission, which had a surface base just resting on the surface without
<queqiao--> a rigid connection to the ground. (and that's why i thought a stamp-o-tron might be a workaround)This first video is the control, filmed without principia installed:
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r_pJ2Ohp3IWhen the lander launches, the docking port stays firmly connected, despite timewarp. this is the correct behavior, although with stock physics.This second video shows what happens with Principia:
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5461C9jNRiMWhen leaving the docking port on the surface, and then time warping, the docking port jumps up to meet the ship as if its current position was the same as the first time warp. Lateral and downward movements are worse and can result in burying the vessel underground. The workaround is to leave the physics range of the vessel (2.5km) but that is not easy to do in orbit
<queqiao--> around a 1km wide rubble pile, in which high orbits can be measured in kilometers and it would be easy to accidentally timewarp while in physics range.I believe better timewarp is responsible for removing the timewarp altitude restrictions (unless principia is doing this), and better timewarp is definitely a must-have for the system layout i'm using, so i can't just block timewarp within 2.5 km of the surface. (Not to mention that this would be
<queqiao--> pretty annoying)The terrain textures also seem to jump when timewarping in this manner, which is interesting.the planet mod can be found here: https://github.com/WhirligigGirl/GoobalSlimeWorld/
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> The save file and logs are attached.
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<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> do these animals carry some significance?
<raptop> Boris looks to be ready to go to work (also, dogs are cats)
<raptop> Luna: because of the why egg is, this is the cat pictures channel, though discussion of the N-body mod for KSP is also on topic
<queqiao--> <s​ii​ma​v> N-body, Nyan-body - what's the difference
<queqiao--> <P​ro​ga​me​r1​92​0> 25$ steam gift https://goo.su/vQxvtd Steam, The Ultimate Online Game Platform: Steam is the ultimate destination for playing, discussing, and creating games.
<queqiao--> Reply to "B​ut​ch​er​: "
<queqiao--> <M​ax​si​ma​l> Reformed pirate going on his first job interview vibes.
<queqiao--> Reply to "W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​: do these animals carry some significance?"
<queqiao--> <T​iv​ec​> Don’t all animals carry significance?
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> i meant with respect to the channel
<raptop> Scrolling to the bottom of the pins will give bit of the vibe that egg is going for
<queqiao--> Reply to "W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​: i meant with respect to the channel"
<queqiao--> <M​ax​si​ma​l> Principia is the officially unofficial 'show me your cat' channel on the discord.
<queqiao--> <T​iv​ec​> Officially unofficial
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> is it also the help me with a principia bug channel or have i misunderstood something and i need to go somewhere else?
<queqiao--> <M​ax​si​ma​l> Well it's not named #cats or #pets but it's definitely where you go to share pet pics.
<queqiao--> Reply to "W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​: is it also the help me with a principia bug channel or have i misunderstood something and..."
<queqiao--> <M​ax​si​ma​l> No you're in the right place.
<queqiao--> <M​ax​si​ma​l> The other place if you want to post it is as an issue on the github
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> ya if you're posting logs itd be best to go to the github, just clutters this up less
<queqiao--> <s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​> See https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/master/SUPPORT.md.
<queqiao--> <s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​> The logs have rather concerning messages like:E0512 14:46:32.310591 12264 ksp_plugin_adapter.cs:1299] Unpacked part restock-leg-2-rigid (EE149B07) appeared between BetterLateThanNever and WaitForFixedUpdate. Linearly extrapolating its position at the previous frame.
<queqiao--> <s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​> which in the code is preceded by the comment "Assumptions about the invariants of KSP will invariably fail. This is a graceful fallback."So my hunch is some mod doing something that Principia dislikes.
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> that part is from RestockRigidLegs, which i think is just a part mod? ive downloaded it in the past and have seen it work fine, although idk if ive used it with principia
<queqiao--> <s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​> I don't think the part per se is a problem. The problem is that it appears mid-way through the game cycle. That hints at a mod messing with parts/vessels at random times.
<_whitenotifier-979b> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #4222: A *Mathematica* function for evaluating expressions using IEEE arithmetic - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/4222
<queqiao--> Reply to "M​ax​si​ma​l: Reformed pirate going on his first job interview vibes."
<queqiao--> <M​ax​si​ma​l> I'd hire him 🙂
<queqiao--> Reply to "s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​: The logs have rather concerning messages like: ``` E0512 14:46:32.310591 12264 ksp_plugin..."
<queqiao--> <K​ir​k ​(H​e/​Hi​m)​> This is whirligig and a 1 km body is being described, so I think Principia does in fact dislike what is happening
<queqiao--> <s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​> The logs have rather concerning messages like:E0512 14:46:32.310591 12264 ksp_plugin_adapter.cs:1299] Unpacked part restock-leg-2-rigid (EE149B07) appeared between BetterLateThanNever and WaitForFixedUpdate. Linearly extrapolating its position at the previous frame.
<queqiao--> <s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​> which in the code is preceded by the comment "Assumptions about the invariants of KSP will invariably fail. This is a graceful fallback."So my hunch is some mod doing something that Principia dislikes.
<queqiao--> Reply to "K​ir​k ​(H​e/​Hi​m)​: This is whirligig and a 1 km body is being described, so I think Principia does in fact d..."
<queqiao--> <A​l₂​Me​₆> Well whether Principia likes the physics of such a system is a different matter. The body being tiny would not somehow make a part appear at the wrong part of the lifecycle.
<queqiao--> Reply to "K​ir​k ​(H​e/​Hi​m)​: This is whirligig and a 1 km body is being described, so I think Principia does in fact d..."
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> this is not whirligig world, it's actually a different mod
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> but yeah
<queqiao--> Reply to "s​ic​he​lg​ai​ta​: I don't think the part per se is a problem. The problem is that it appears mid-way thr..."
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> vessel mover is the only thing here that seems like it should be capable of changing how a vessel moves, but i'm not, like, using it.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> im gonna try without vessel mover just to see
<queqiao--> Reply to "W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​: this is not whirligig world, it's actually a different mod"
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> my guess was that perhaps for most cases this bug might not have been noticed because when launching from airless bodies you're usually burning long enough that you won't actually need to timewarp until you're beyond physics range from any other surface equipment.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> whereas this one is small enough for it to be noticed
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> hm, thats an interesting theory
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<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> exactly the same behavior occurs with vesselmover removed
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> also just to confirm that the bug does not just occur with the stampotron, i got a goobal (goo kerbal) out on EVA to fly around and when timewarping the spacecraft (and docking port) teleport such that the door of the spacecraft jumps to the goobal's position.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> and ok yeah so basically where the other vessels teleports to seems to be related to where they are when the scene is first entered or the vessel first appears, so basically, if i move the rocket to land next to the docking port on the little hill it's on, then i quicksave, and then i launch, the docking port teleports away from me over the surface to account for the offset from when i loaded the first
<queqiao--> quicksave. But then when i quickload the save on the hill, and launch, now the docking port will teleport much closer to the rocket during timewarps.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> the relative positions of vessels is in some way 'stuck' to some particular location
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> this also does not occur to spacecrafts in orbit, at least not in high orbit.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> also this seems to have nothing at all to do with the stamp-o-tron. even with it removed and a quicksave quickloaded, the behavior of the vessel teleporting up to the kerbal on eva in timewarp persists.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> and it is definitely only a matter of vessels actually on the ground--launching the spacecraft and then going on eva produces no teleportation with timewarp
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> their winning slile* in the face of the very laws of physics failing-# *(slime smile) https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/480397772248580098/1371620035386409010/image.png?ex=6823cc33&is=68227ab3&hm=a1df021b76f0fc0814a66866255f58344b01f3edc5facccdafe273ac0d60bd49&
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<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> woah. exiting the sphere of influence results in ending up nowhere near Ubbi
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> and "moving over terrain"
<queqiao--> <K​ir​k ​(H​e/​Hi​m)​> KSP really didn't like deimos and phobos for being so small. I'm guessing it violently dislikes a 1 km body lol
<queqiao--> <K​ir​k ​(H​e/​Hi​m)​> Although usually Principia does a good job of smoothing those issues over
<paculino> Now I wonder how that toy solar system mod handled Gilly
<queqiao--> Reply to "p​ac​ul​in​o: Now I wonder how that toy solar system mod handled Gilly"
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> tiny bodies have problems, but this isn't one of them, at least not in stock physics.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> one of the main problems with tiny bodies is when they're put in low orbits, and have inverseRotThresholdAltitude > SOI radius. that can be fixed manually in kopernicus. The other problems have to do with rendering. PQS gets extremely extremely slow when it's displaying an entire planet at a small angular size, but you can only get so close to a scaledspace model before the camera clips into it.
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> finally there's also some collision issues, which can be mitigated but not fully fixed by changing the maxLevel to the minimum value to reduce the number of terrain subdivisions.
<queqiao--> Reply to "p​ac​ul​in​o: Now I wonder how that toy solar system mod handled Gilly"
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> also hi, that was also me.
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<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> What does that value even do?
<queqiao--> <W​hi​rl​ig​ig​Gi​rl​> it controls at what altitude the game tracks your rotation relative to the rotating planet versus tracking it relative to the nonrotating reference frame