egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao--> <t​hu​nk​> Лидов mentioned
<queqiao--> Reply to "t​hu​nk​: Please don't do this: https://bsky.app/profile/tony873004.bsky.social/post/3lrenb7zync2v"
<queqiao--> <t​hu​nk​> this joke is probably overplayed, but a high but non-polar inclination would give you the most cursed possible 'launch into the plane of the moon' mod.You start the moon in a circular orbit inclined 60 or 62 deg to the ecliptic, and then Lidov-Kozai oscillations shift the orbit to 45 deg inclination and approximately 0.8 (1-e^2=0.4 or so), and back again. The period would be about 11 years i think?Nobody will ever complain again!
<_whitenotifier-b8cd> [Principia] Ashikaga-JFM commented on issue #4244: There are no maneuverable nodes on the navigation sphere in creative mode - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/4244#issuecomment-3082290011
<_whitenotifier-b8cd> [Principia] Ashikaga-JFM closed issue #4244: There are no maneuverable nodes on the navigation sphere in creative mode - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/4244
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<queqiao--> <t​hu​nk​> i actually want to make the kozaimoon configuration now, this might be pretty interesting (and i can learn a bit more about how principia works)
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<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Does installing principia mess up current saves? I think I might want to try it but if it only works on fresh saves then I’ll wait.
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> only if you have interplanetary trajectories
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> in which case, the planets will be in a completely different position and you're gonna miss your window
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Ok
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> I think I’ll wait until I’m satisfied with my current save, I’m about to launch my first probes to Venus and Mars.
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> Thats where principia shines compared to conics :v
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> Interplanetary transfers are alot easier
<queqiao--> Reply to "e​zs​na​ck​: Thats where principia shines compared to conics :v"
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> I find it pretty easy just using the pork chop planner and then advanced transfer to another planet in the maneuver planner.
<queqiao--> Reply to "e​zs​na​ck​: Interplanetary transfers are alot easier"
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> In what way is it easier?
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> thats indeed easier lol, i meant no automation vs no automation
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Got it
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> they also dont bug out constantly
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> in principia you cant use the manoeuvre planner, it doesnt work
<queqiao--> Reply to "e​zs​na​ck​: in principia you cant use the manoeuvre planner, it doesnt work"
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> So it’s just planning maneuver nodes by hand?
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Shame, I really like the maneuver planner
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> i mean i also went full manual on conics before i was using principia :v its just more satisfying
<queqiao--> Reply to "e​zs​na​ck​: i mean i also went full manual on conics before i was using principia :v its just more sa..."
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> True, but when running simulations over and over I find it quicker to just use the planner
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> for sure, but you cant in principia so get ready :V
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> My only experience with n body gravity in a game before is with Children of a Dead Earth, will principia be similar with plotting trajectories?
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> idk cuz i never played it :V
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Ok, does it show your trajectory in reference to the sun or the planet you are in the sphere of influence of?
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> It shows relative to whatever the hell you want
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> you can always chose the reference frame at any point
<queqiao--> Reply to "G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​): It shows relative to whatever the hell you want"
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> By setting a target?
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> just read this :v
<queqiao--> <R​OB​ot​ 2​.0​> https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Concepts
<queqiao--> Reply to "e​zs​na​ck​: you can always chose the reference frame at any point"
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> well, except when in atmosphere, then you can’t use other bodies’ surface frames
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Thanks, I’ll check it out
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> you have the choice of surface, inertial, body/parent, and body/parent Lagrange for every celestial
<queqiao--> Reply to "R​ot​or​He​ad​: By setting a target?"
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> in short no, theres different uis for the plotting reference frame and visualization reference frame, completely unrelated to the target or anything else
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> Yeah. There is a special reference frame for the target vessel but that’s all that is tied to it
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Are there any performance issues with principia? My pc is decent, and I run RP1 on high graphics
<queqiao--> <e​zs​na​ck​> it runs worse but not terribly, it gets worse the more crafts there are in orbit
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> Yes, very yes - limit your warp speed and delete the asteroid configs
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> You’ll thank me later
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> I have 64 gb of RAM and a 4 year old i9 CPU, I still have FPS issues with Principia
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> especially when plotting long trajectories, that really slows it down
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> And are there any other mods that need to be installed? Any conflicts with RP1 mods?
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> No and no*
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> non-express mods yes though - anything that screws with your trajectory is a flat out no go
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> eg FTL drives, some Orion drive mods, persistent thrust, etc
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Ok, and you have to join the principia server to get a download for the mod right?
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> No, it’s just on GitHub
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> this is the Principia server :v
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Got it, thanks a lot, I think I’ll check out principia when I get far enough in my current run. Do you recommend starting a fresh save?
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> Absolutely
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> Like ezsnack said it will completely break any interplanetary missions
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Thanks
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> I’d recommend you play a normal save with Principia, get used to it, and then try some of the N-body shenanigans (the first to try is probably an L2 halo orbit lunar relay)
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> that should take about 400 m/s to get out there and then a station keeping burn every two weeks or so
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> hm, is there a way to do a repeating alarm for KAC for that purpose?
<queqiao--> Reply to "G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​): that should take about 400 m/s post TLI to get out there and then a station keeping burn ..."
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> L4 and L5 are the stable points right?
<queqiao--> Reply to "C​la​ye​l: hm, is there a way to do a repeating alarm for KAC for that purpose?"
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> There is, yeah. But ofc you have to do the burns yourself
<queqiao--> Reply to "R​ot​or​He​ad​: L4 and L5 are the stable points right?"
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> Yeah, but you can’t reach the far side of the moon with those
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> not directly anyway
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> whereas a relay at L2 is all you need to get the entire far side
<queqiao--> Reply to "G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​): Yeah, but you can’t reach the far side of the moon with those"
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Won’t you need those points for the l2 sat to communicate with earth?
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> Nah, the halo orbit is wide enough to go around the moon
<queqiao--> Reply to "G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​): Nah, the halo orbit is wide enough to go around the moon"
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Oh right, I forgot how to visualize it
<queqiao--> <C​la​ye​l> does the halo orbit turn as the moon orbits?
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> yeah the satellite will always stay behind it and turn with it
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> but it gets either ejected into solar orbit or thrown into the moon after around three weeks
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> you are standing on a knife edge between solar and lunar orbit
<queqiao--> <R​ot​or​He​ad​> Btw, how do you delete asteroid configs, I think you mentioned that earlier
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> Squad/Parts/AsteroidDay/PotatoRoid iirc
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> just delete that folder
<queqiao--> <G​oF​or​PD​I ​(l​es​s ​dr​ag​=m​or​e ​fa​st​er​)> it will remove all the asteroids from your game, which will free up the trajectory computations used on them